tex >> LaTeX Software Question

by Da Zing » Sun, 23 Nov 2008 03:28:02 GMT

Hello Everyone,

I'm wondering if anybody can recommend software for editing LaTeX that
would provide more immediate feedback than the old fashioned method of
editing the file in a text editor, processing, viewing in the output
(dvi, pdf, ps, whatever), finding mistakes in the output, looking for
mistakes in the text file, correcting mistakes in the text file,
processing... lather rinse repeat.

There are three problems that I have when typing in LaTeX

(1) Despite years of experience writing in LaTeX, I still frequently
make basic mistakes (like typing _\pi/2 when I mean to type _{\pi/
2}).

(2) Sometimes, it is difficult to find the right choice of words and
notation to express what I want to say, so I end up make frequent
edits to one sentence until I get something I'm satisfied with. This
means editing, processing, reading, edit processing, reading, over and
over again.

(3) When I'm trying to make presentation slides, using a package like
beamer, good spacing is of utmost importance, but it nearly impossible
to know how well things are going to be spaced from the LaTeX code
alone. So I end up spending a lot of time tweaking, adjusting,
reprocessing until things look just right (or until they don't but
I've spent long enough on it that I can't afford to care anymore.)

These things are tolerable in small doses, but I've become
increasingly frustrated with the process, and often feel like I'm
wasting a lot of time.

In all three of these cases, being able to see at least an
approximation to the output of my code would be very helpful. I'd
like to be able to type in LaTeX, but to see the output right away, or
shortly after (1-2 seconds).

If such a program were feasible and I were designing it myself, the
screen would be divided into two frames, with the one showing the
output and the other showing the LaTeX input (it would somewhat
resemble Word Perfect when using the "reveal codes" feature -- to
those who are familiar with reveal codes, I have often likened typing
LaTeX to typing in reveal codes full time).

I recognize that what I'm asking may be a very tall order, once you
start taking packages and custom definitions into account, and I can
think of a few other things that might make it complicated.
Nevertheless, I'm aware of some software whose implementation is
based, at least in part, on LaTeX.

Here are the ones I'm aware of.

(1) LyX. It seems to be the most popular. I downloaded it and tried
it out, but couldn't get it to behave how I wanted. In particular, I
couldn't figure out how to type in LaTeX and see the output. I
certainly couldn't figure out if it was even possible to see both LyX
output and LaTeX input at the same time. I know LyX has a wysiwim
rather than wysiwig approach, so I wouldn't get the exact output.
With this in mind, though, the program still didn't perform in a way
that was satisfactory to me.

Also, when I tried to load one of my LaTeX files into LyX it didn't
seem to know what to do with a lot of the commands, especially
environments.

LyX is free, and you get what you pay for. I'm willing to spend
money, which brings us to the next options.

(2) Scientific Workplace/Word/Notebook by MacKichan Software. Long
ago, near the end of an undergraduate summer research project I used
scientific notebook, within the 30-day shareware term, to record my
results because learning enough LaTeX would have taken too long.
Underlying the Scientific Notebook documents was LaTeX code, but when
I tried to process it outside of Notebook, it didn't work. Maybe the
file could be tweaked so that it would run on the various LaTeX
distributions (and in particular MiKTeX), but I don't want to have to
bother with that for every document. Also, being able to type in
LaTeX is not an available feature of Notebook.

The company's website claims that you can typeset in LaTeX in both
Scientific Workplace and Scientific Word, which I take to mean that I
can type in LaTeX, which will be converted to math notation as I
type. But both of these programs are ridiculously expensive if I'm
paying for them out of my own pocket. I even find it hard to believe
that a university would pony up the dough to pay for either of these
programs.

(3) Microsoft Word. The equation editor in Word is a lot better than
it used to be, but the input is LaTeX-like and not LaTeX. For
example, LaTeX \lim is lim in Equation Editor, and the equation editor
uses round brackets where LaTeX would use curly braces. Also, the end
result is not a LaTeX document.

There are also add-ons/plug-ins to Word. I haven't used these, but I
suspect that I would not have a LaTeX file once I'm done, but a word
file whose equations were composed in LaTeX and converted into a
Microsoft format, as if I had learned Word's equation editor syntax
and typed them in that way.

(4) BaKoMa Tex Word. It sounds like this program does what I want.
It even includes support for slides. On the other hand, it seems very
resource intensive, with a minimum of 1 GHz, and 2 GHz recommended (I
have a 1.6 Core 2 Duo). Microsoft Word doesn't have a processor freak-
out when I use its equation editor, so I don't think a program needs
to be this resource intensive. Also, the program doesn't look very
professional (too many bright colours. It looks like it was designed
to appeal to small children). For these two reasons I am a bit
suspicious (which is why I haven't even tried to download it and test
it).

(\end enumerate ...)

Those are my options as far as I know. I would appreciate any
feedback regarding these programs or any others that I don't know
about and thus didn't mention here, commercial or otherwise. Did I
miss something with LyX? Are they worth the money, safe to download,
etc. etc. Do they support custom commands, environments, additional
packages, and whatnot?

At a minimum, I'd like to be able to type in LaTeX and see
approximately what the processed code would look like. Some way of
coping with custom commands etc. would be nice too (even if they are
ignored, as happens with unknown html tags). Ideally, I would be able
to see the code and the output at the same time, and the custom
commands and whatnot would be interpreted in or close to real time.
If not, I could live with it.

If there exists a round-up on the internet of all the best LaTeX
oriented software with some sort of rapid visual output (around 1 or 2
seconds, or maybe even more, is tolerable), I would love to know about
it. I've looked, but haven't found anything yet.

Thanks


tex >> LaTeX Software Question

by Ulrich Diez » Sun, 23 Nov 2008 03:50:59 GMT






On faster machines I like AUCTeX and preview-latex:

http://www.gnu.org/software/auctex/

Ulrich



tex >> LaTeX Software Question

by Joost Kremers » Sun, 23 Nov 2008 03:52:35 GMT




if you are not averse to using emacs, you could give preview-latex a try.
it processes chunks of LaTeX code and displays the result directly the text
you're writing. so you edit a math expression, hit C-c C-p C-p and emacs
(almost) instantly displays what the expression looks like after TeX'ing
it. if you don't like it, you just move your cursor over the image and the
LaTeX code is displayed again, so that you can edit it. hit C-c C-p C-p
again and the edited version is processed and displayed.

preview-latex uses the preamble of your document to process the parts you
want to preview, so it's able to handle custom commands.

< http://www.gnu.org/software/auctex/preview-latex.html> ;


--
Joost Kremers XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Selbst in die Unterwelt dringt durch Spalten Licht
EN:SiS(9)


LaTeX Software Question

by David Kastrup » Sun, 23 Nov 2008 04:22:45 GMT

Ulrich Diez < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > writes:



Oh come on. preview-latex has been optimized where it runs fine on
233MHz computers with large documents. It's really a low-resource
solution. I have occasionally been using it on a 133Mhz Pentium Laptop
with 32MB of RAM, and then it was not as optimized as it is now. Yes,
it was painful, but less painful than most alternatives.

--
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum
UKTUG FAQ: <URL: http://www.tex.ac.uk/cgi-bin/texfaq2html> ;


LaTeX Software Question

by Robert Heller » Sun, 23 Nov 2008 05:41:45 GMT

t Sat, 22 Nov 2008 11:28:02 -0800 (PST) Da Zing < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote:


If it is just a 'content' edit (and not a formatting/typesetting issue), why
do need to 'process' the file? Is it not possible to just read the
source file on the screen in you editor window?


A true WYSIWYG editor will probably waste *more* time. It sounds like
you might do better (with beamer) with a set of properly crafted style
files and/or the right 'magic' in your document's preamble.


LyX is really a "beginner's" tool and really is meant as a way of moving
from a pure WYSIWYG word-processor (eg MS-Word) to a true type-setting
system (eg LaTeX).


Scientific Workplace/Word/Notebook is a WYSIWYG word-processor that uses
a LaTeX-flavored backend. Although there is a LaTeX-ish backend, it
appears that is a 'no user servicable parts here' type of system.


Right.


--
Robert Heller -- Get the Deepwoods Software FireFox Toolbar!
Deepwoods Software -- Linux Installation and Administration
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Web Hosting, with CGI and Database
XXXX@XXXXX.COM -- Contract Programming: C/C++, Tcl/Tk



LaTeX Software Question

by tom lewton » Sun, 23 Nov 2008 06:04:40 GMT




this is utter nonsense.

unfortunately the maintainer of preview-latex has no interest whatsoever
in getting it running even with something older than the latest
bleeding-edge cvs version of emacs, let alone on boxes that are 15 years
old.

his attitude to backward-compatibility stinks. he obviously can't
imagine a world beyond personal desktops where software is updated daily
or weekly. the fact that many people rely on servers built for longterm
stability with software updated every few years means nothing to him.



LaTeX Software Question

by Rasmus Pank Roulund » Sun, 23 Nov 2008 06:12:00 GMT

> I'm wondering if anybody can recommend software for editing LaTeX that

You might like LaTeXDaemon[1] by William Blum. It has an eye on you text
files and recompiles every time a watched file is changed.

Also, you should check out the new TeXWorks[2] editor. It utilize synctex
which means that you can mark a line in the source and have it
highlighted in the output. Actually, you can use any editor and
Sumatra PDF[3] if you want to utilize synctex. Paired with LaTeXDaemon it
might be what you are looking for :-)

I use Emacs 23, AUCTeX and Sumatra PDF. Unfortunatly, I am not able to
get Preview LaTeX working at the moment . . .

Cheers,
Rasmus

Footnotes:
[1] http://william.famille-blum.org/software/latexdaemon/index.html
[2] http://code.google.com/p/texworks/
[3] http://blog.kowalczyk.info/software/sumatrapdf/




LaTeX Software Question

by David Kastrup » Sun, 23 Nov 2008 07:48:11 GMT

tom lewton < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > writes:



The current maintainer of preview-latex calls you a liar. Of course
preview-latex works fine with the latest released versions of Emacs. It
certainly runs fine with Emacs 22.1, but I don't think that it has
stopped working on Emacs 21.1 yet.


The 133MHz 32MB Pentium Laptop was not 15 years old. And it indeed was
already running a prerelease of Emacs 21.1. In fact, the astonishing
number of bugs that has been ironed out in the image support of Emacs
21.1 before its release is due to heavy exercising of preview-latex on
this particular system.

And the early versions of preview-latex were quite less optimized.


Your attitude stinks. Badly so, by the way.


We don't support versions of Emacs older than something like 5 years
IIRC. If you prefer working with software older than that, feel free to
get versions of AUCTeX created to go with it. Or feel free to invest
the work yourself to make new versions of AUCTeX work on old Emacsen.
The source is there for both Emacs and AUCTeX. If _you_ want a
combination of software that _nobody else_ wants, feel free to do the
honors yourself or pay somebody to do it.

But lying and badmouthing in public because others don't volunteer to do
work for free that will _only_ benefit your personally and nobody else,
when the actual problem is that you can't convince your department to
deploy sane versions of software, is not exactly helping your case and
reputation.

--
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum
UKTUG FAQ: <URL: http://www.tex.ac.uk/cgi-bin/texfaq2html> ;


LaTeX Software Question

by Ivica » Sun, 23 Nov 2008 10:38:03 GMT

Another option is (X)Emacs + advi [1] + WhizzyTeX [2].
You can have emacs with LaTeX source on the left and viewer on the
right.
As you type the LaTeX code, simultaneously the new text appears in the
viewer.

Footnotes:
[1] http://pauillac.inria.fr/advi/
[2] http://cristal.inria.fr/whizzytex/



LaTeX Software Question

by Tom Micevski » Sun, 23 Nov 2008 11:56:13 GMT




i use bakoma with a dual p3-933 (which is considerably slower than your
core 2 duo) and the typeset output comes up virtually instantaneously,
so don't worry about the speed/resource requirements.

bakoma can handle custom commands.

i find bakoma especially useful when typing up equations.


LaTeX Software Question

by Gernot Hassenpflug » Sun, 23 Nov 2008 14:04:01 GMT

Da Zing < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > writes:


Apart from the other recommendations (I user Emacs/AUCTeX by the way),
you might also try OpenOffice and various plugins/add-ons to convert
to/from LaTeX code. Under the Debian distribution you have such
packages if you search aptitude using the keyword "latex".

HTH,
Gernot
--
Gernot Hassenpflug


LaTeX Software Question

by rf10 » Sun, 23 Nov 2008 17:14:05 GMT

Tom Micevski < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > writes:


but it's shareware: my interpretation of vassili's words is that you
need a key to unlock it even to try it out. am i wrong? (i've _not_
tried it, given my shortage of time -- no windows machine at home --
and general lassitude.)
--
Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge


LaTeX Software Question

by Ulrich Diez » Sun, 23 Nov 2008 17:21:01 GMT




[...]

The OP talked about a 1.6 Core 2 Duo-machine while I am a bit
oldfashioned and still often use my good old Pentium 233MMX
with 256MB RAM and consider that a _faster_ machine.
The last time I run preview-LaTeX on that machine, it was not
painful at all.

Maybe my statement was a bit insane as it disobeyed the state
of the art and the spirit of the time, but I didn't intend to
critisize AUCTeX/preview-LaTeX.

Ulrich


LaTeX Software Question

by Tom Micevski » Sun, 23 Nov 2008 22:15:36 GMT





it's been a while since i bought it, but i'm pretty sure i installed it
and gave it a go before buying (without needing a rego code first).
well, checking bakoma's web site, it seems that you've got 28 days to
try it out
http://www.bakoma-tex.com/menu/purchase.php


LaTeX Software Question

by tom lewton » Mon, 24 Nov 2008 04:03:53 GMT




not for me - i only ever use vim+latexsuite. i just get pissed off by
your arrogant attitude, always pushing preview-latex in this group and
then shitting on anyone who dares to try to run it with a slightly
out-of-date emacs. "2007? that's stone age. get the cvs version or don't
bother trying to use preview-latex."

yes, i think this attitude stinks.