misc, Looking for BASIC compiler

I started programming many years ago, first with VAX BASIC, and later with
GW-Basic. I then moved to QB and PDS and VBDOS. Programming for Windows
started with VB4 and then VB6, I skipped VB5, and most recently VB.NET, BTW
I really don't like .NET.

Along the way I've experimented with many other languages, C, C++, Delphi,
and other flavors of Basic, XBasic, RapidQ, and most recently RealBasic.
None provide the development speed VB does for me.

What I'm looking for is a VB like IDE, with a proper forms designer and
such that can produce self contained .EXE's, without the need to distribute
runtimes as well. RealBasic is a good fit for this, but it is still way too
OSX oriented, is really slow, and doesn't do databases really well.

Any ideas?

--
HK

If VB is working for you, why change?
--
auric dot auric at gmail dot com
*****
He eats, he sleeps, he cries, he poops, and someday when he's all grown
up he'll devour your soul.

I did not see any mention of PowerBasic. There are several flavors. Check
their website.

L

I've been wondering about this sort of thing lately too -- but I only
got as far as PDS 7.1 previously. 8-)

So, has anyone here had sufficient experience with the latest VB
flavour (now .NET I guess?) compared with PowerBasic and Liberty
Basic, to offer an informed opinion on these products one versus the
others, please?

Alternatively, does anyone know of a reliable review comparison of
these three which is available on the web? (Or in a still available
printed form.)

Should I really be looking elsewhere anyway?

Cheers, Phred.

--
XXXX@XXXXX.COM

Why is that?

the language is now so object oriented that there is a small learning
hurdle that perhaps was lower than with VB, but i think it still a
logical progression from VB1-6 as long as you are comfirtable changing
some things about your programming approach and forgiving about the old
VB features missing (but welcoming of the many more VB.NET ones coming
in)

For quick GUI app development, and relatively small .exe's both VB4-6
and VB.NET are good, in the first and second instance provided you have
the appropriate runtimes installed. .NET does need a more powerful PC,
but in practice a P3 and 128 or more RAM will work fine.


I found Delphi to be the best for RAD, but indeed not quite as easy to
get going as a VB app. FreeBasic is great as a 32 bit enhanced
alterantive to QB, but not really for RAD.


i suspect that VB6, VB.NET and Delphi are still the best bet for this
kind of application, or patience regarding the alternatives you've
mentioned

Phred" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote in message
news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...

I doubt if you will find a review comparing the various flavors of basic.
If you want to know which one is best, it is largely a matter of opinion.

VB-6 offers several advantages. It allows development using a RAD
environment. Thus you don't spend a lot of time hand coding forms.
It also generates reasonably fast code. And finally, there are a large
number of books available for it.

On the down side, it is no longer being sold and it comes with only a
small number of native components. This means you'll have to
distribute several DLLs with your program and this can lead to
problems.

VB-NET offers an environment that is similar to VB-6. Personally,
I find the .NET WinForms designer to be a bit crude and I don't
care for the fact that there is no support for native code. .NET code
is slow - often very slow. In addition, VB.NET and VB-6 are two
different languages. It is probably just as easy to convert a VB-6
program to Delphi as to VB.NET. The sole advantage of VB.NET
is that there are a large number of books available for it.

REALbasic also offers a decent RAD environment once you get
used to the peculiarities of the text editor. It does not have very
many components with it, but can use Active-X controls. It does
not have a reputation for producing fast code. There are only a
few books available for it but there is a magazine devoted to it.

PowerBasic does not offer a RAD environment. You must either
hand code your forms or use a screen design tool. These tools
create source code for the forms. This methodology is useable
but adds a good bit of time to the process of building windows
applications. It is inherently more error prone then the methods
used by VB, REALbasic, or Delphi. PowerBasic does generate
reasonably fast code, but VB-6 is often faster. I don't know of
any books on PowerBasic other than the one published by the
vendor. PowerBasic is generally similar to MS-QuickBasic.

Liberty BASIC is similar to PowerBasic. As I recall, it uses a
run-time interpreter rather than a native code compiler. The
vendor publishes a monthly newsletter which you can download,
but there has been only one book that covered it and it is a bit
dated.

Back in the days of DOS, I used Basic, C, Modula-2, and Pascal
extensively. After checking out what was available for Windows, I
settled on Borland Delphi. From time to time I check out the other
choices, but so far it is the only system I've found that combines
a rapid development environment with the ability to generate really
fast code. (But, it is not BASIC.)

--
Charles Appel
http://charlesappel.home.mindspring.com/
Home of Chuck's Poker Libraries for Delphi,
Chuck's Video Poker and Chuck's Toys

n article <NS%Oe.1403$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM >, "Charles Appel" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote:

Thanks very much, Charles, for your thoughtful and useful response.
I do have a followup query though: How difficult would it be for an
old BASIC programmer to become reasonably proficient in Delphi?
I believe it harks back to Pascal in many ways, so perhaps your
earlier experience with that language would have helped in your case?
However, judging from your response, you have also had a fair bit to
do with various BASICs, so I would appreciate your advice on this.

TIA.

Cheers, Phred.

--
XXXX@XXXXX.COM

It produces *damn slow* code, but it's probably the only decent cross-
platform BASIC available.


PB *does* have a form editor, called PowerBASIC Forms. It's not as easy
as VB to connect code to controls, and it costs an extra US$99. (PB also
includes the 16-bit MS Dialog Editor, and can probably use forms created
in it, but I have no idea how to do so, since they're saved as
resources.)


There are at least three other books (not free). Look here:
http://www.libertybasic.com/resources.html

The book you are likely referring to, "Windows Programming for the
Complete Klutz in Liberty BASIC", is indeed pretty old (copyright 1993)
and it was written for LB0.9, but AFAIK everything in it still applies
to modern LB (v4). (It used to be available from the LB site, but I
can't find it there.)
--
auric dot auric at gmail dot com
*****
You know you have a drinking problem when the bartender knows your name
and you've never been to that bar before.
-- Zack Galifianakis

I'm looking for something that doesn't require additional runtime modules.

--
HK

It's not that the language itself is that bad, I looked at it and played
with it, I suppose I really need to use it for a while to be fair regarding
my statement. I suppose the most frustrating this is that, being used to
VB6 requires that I forget much of the language and relearn it as .NET,
something I haven't had a lot of time to do.


I suppose


The problem at the moment isd the runtime. I still have Win98, I know, I
know, machines here and need to make apps that run there. I suppose it's
only one download for .NET, but I though if there was a solution not
requiring runtimes, I'd like to see it as an alternative.

I like Delphi, but would prefer a BASIC solution to no runtimes required.
Mostly because I am most familiar with BASIC. AFAIK, FreeBASIC has a
seperate runtime module, no?


It looks like you're right. Of the bunch, Delphi is the only solution not
requiring runtime distribution.

Thanks for your input.

--
HK

n Wed, 24 Aug 2005 14:54:37 GMT, Charles Appel wrote:


If Delphi were BASIC, it'd be perfect. Looks like I'll have to spend more
time learning Delphi. It's not that I don't like the language, it's just
working through the learning curve. Not too horrible though, at least it's
logical in it's verbage and structure. Not like some of the languages I've
given up on.

Thanks
--
HK

n Wed, 24 Aug 2005 15:16:21 GMT, Phred wrote:


My opinion thus far is that it's about the easiest language to migrate to
for a BASIC programmer, at least ofg hte languages I've tried.

--
HK

H-Man" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote in message
news:135khnrcdzh49$.fbo39ay9ecak$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...

Have you checked out PureBasic http://www.purebasic.com/ ?

--
Mail sent to this email address is deleted unread
on the server. Please send replies to the newsgroup.

<snipe>

This isnt much help as I cant find it and cant remember its name.
I downloaded an exe packer the other day that packed all .exe,
.dll and other assoaciated files into a single .exe file and ran
directly from the file without unpacking.
I did plan on using this program so I will look for it again
as it sounds quite clever.

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 15:16:21 GMT, XXXX@XXXXX.COM (Phred)



<snip>


I've been using BASICs since 1977

I started using VB on 1996 and ran into speed problems so I got a copy
of Delphi and used it to write a DLL containing pure ASM

Then I got interested in the language
- it is not BASIC
- I made the cardinal mistake of trying to write BASIC code in it

I've ported a fair load of BASIC 7.1 code directly into Delphi
- it is not that difficult

If I'm correct in guessing that you have done no Windows programming
then I reckon your biggest problem is going to be getting a handle on
how Windows works

There is also something to watch out for, Delphi is a 'new' form of
Pascal
- old style Pascal is not really to my taste
- one can write far clearer code using the 'new' features of Delphi
but a lot of the code one sees is in the 'old style'

It is an interesting language, not really for beginners, but for a
fairly experienced coder it is a pleasure to use.