misc >> Book recommendation

by Craig Franck » Wed, 27 Jun 2007 08:08:20 GMT

There are a number of titles at Amazon, but I can't find
any info on them.

Any help would be appreciated. (I recently downloaded
Version 1 pro edition.)

--
Craig Franck
XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Cortland, NY



misc >> Book recommendation

by Happy Trails » Wed, 27 Jun 2007 08:17:54 GMT


On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:08:20 GMT, "Craig Franck"



Can you provide just a tad more info on what kind of a book you are
looking for, and maybe even what your own background knowledge might
be to start with?

misc >> Book recommendation

by Craig Franck » Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:05:27 GMT

"Happy Trails" wrote



I'm looking for an introduction to the environment for someone
who knows how to program in Basic and has used Visual C++
in the past. So something for a reasonably competent programmer
who only wants one or two books on VB for DOS.

Sorry I wasn't more specific.

--
Craig Franck
XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Cortland, NY

misc >> Book recommendation

by budgie » Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:34:26 GMT

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 03:05:27 GMT, "Craig Franck" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >




There is a newsgroup (microsoft.public.vb.dos) which deals specifically with
VB-DOS, maybe posting there might get some useful recommendations. I was going
to ask what's wrong with the MS manuals that came with the product, until I saw
that little bit "downloaded Version 1 pro edition"

misc >> Book recommendation

by Judson McClendon » Thu, 28 Jun 2007 06:55:32 GMT

Craig Franck" wrote:

Why would you want to go from Visual C++ (Windows) to VB DOS? VB DOS was an
odd bird, neither regular DOS nor windows GUI interface, but a strange
'windowed' character interface. It was released by Microsoft strictly to
begin to acclimate DOS programmers to Windows-style programming. If I were
you I would shoot for either a normal DOS based or a Windows based BASIC.
There are a number of choices available, for little or no money. Also, do
you need a compiler (to generate executables), or do you simply want to
learn BASIC?

DOS: It's not easy to obtain a licensed copy (check eBay), but QuickBASIC
4.5 was an excellent straight DOS compiler. Download self extracting file
OLDDOS.EXE from microsoft.com to get QBASIC (two files) which is very like
QuickBASIC 4.5, except that it can't compile to EXE. Not much development
being done for DOS anymore. The environment is too limited to be very
interesting these days.

Windows: You've got a world of choices here, there are a number of free or
cheap BASIC interpreters & compilers out there. Do a Google search on "basic
compilers" or "free basic compilers" for lots of them.

If you want to get onto the .NET bandwagon, download any of the Visual
Studio 2005 Express Editions for free (VB, VC#, VJ#, VC++, more) at
www.microsoft.com. These are big downloads (up to 450MB) and are complete
development systems, with super IDE and help; just a tiny bit limited in a
very few features from the retail versions. I don't believe they're limited
in language features, but the number of "I want to build a type xxx app"
templates is fewer. But you can probably download all the missing templates
for those types, and a lot more. I think you can order the CDs for a minimal
charge. You can develop real applications for Windows and ASP.NET with the
Express Editions. They can compile to executables, but they and the
executables require .NET 2.0 (except Visual C++, which can compile straight
Win32 executables, console, GUI, other). There are a host of books available
on all the VS 2005 languages, many of which come with an Express Edition on
CD. If you're new to .NET, the learning curve is steep.

For money, I like the PowerBASIC compilers (www.powerbasic.com); they're
very fast and generate small, fast code. PowerBASIC for DOS 3.5, one of the
most powerful DOS BASICs ever written, costs $49 US. PowerBASIC Console
Compiler is $169 US, and PowerBASIC for Windows (GUIs, DLLs) is $199 US.
Online help is included, printed manuals are about $35 US extra, and
PowerBASIC has lots of useful example to download and offers online forums
for help. These are not huge, bloated monsters like Visual Studio, that
require huge DLLs to run, they're lean and mean, and only need a DLL if you
specifically use it. I have all three PowerBASIC compilers, but I don't use
them to develop large applications. You can, you could write a pretty large
PowerBASIC application and put the executables on a floppy. I use PowerBASIC
for fairly small, "no hassle, do exactly what I want, no more, no less,"
programs like utilities.
--
Judson McClendon XXXX@XXXXX.COM (remove zero)
Sun Valley Systems http://sunvaley.com
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."



misc >> Book recommendation

by ArarghMail706NOSPAM » Thu, 28 Jun 2007 07:58:09 GMT

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:55:32 -0500, "Judson McClendon"


<snip>

Nothing wrong with QuickBASIC Extended v7.0 or v7.1 (aka PDS) either.
However, the UI on VB-DOS is a little funky. :-)

<snip>
--
ArarghMail706 at [drop the 'http://www.' from ->] http://www.arargh.com
BCET Basic Compiler Page: http://www.arargh.com/basic/index.html

To reply by email, remove the extra stuff from the reply address.

misc >> Book recommendation

by rhnlogic » Thu, 28 Jun 2007 08:03:23 GMT

I just checked on Amazon, and there appears to be
a serious shortage of book titles in print on the
classic Basic programming languages (as opposed to
MS IDEs, which seem to bear very little resemblance
to the any of the historical Basic family of
languages).

When anyone wants a simple book on programming in
Basic, I'll probably have to recommend to them
shopping around in a good used book store.

Are there any good books on-line on the subject?


IMHO. YMMV.

misc >> Book recommendation

by RobbH » Thu, 28 Jun 2007 20:44:03 GMT


Ethan Winer's "PC Magazine BASIC Techniques and Utilities" is available on
his web site:

http://www.ethanwiner.com/fullmoon.html

misc >> Book recommendation

by buck huffman » Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:21:16 GMT


vbdos wasn't around for very long as I recall, so there probably aren't
many books on the subject. I've got "the microsoft visual basic for
ms-dos workshop" by John Clark Craig, published by microsoft press of
course, and "building database applications in visual basic" by Chuck
Butkus published by MIS: press which is not specific to the dos version
of vb but says on the back cover that it "is applicable to visual basic
for dos". You might try a search for one of these but I doubt that
either is still in print.

also, if you must use vbdos, I would definitely recommend a the standard
edition because the runtime module for the pro version is so enormous
that it doesn't leave any room for your program code. and that extra
runtime stuff is, mostly, just to support ISAM which is now considered
to be obsolete. I think there are also a few more sample codes in the
pro version? but they may even work in the standard version IIRC(except
for the ISAM stuff of course).

PDS is a better choice for most uses though. It doesn't have a form
designer, but it does come with a user interface library that allows you
to create many of the menus and dialogs available in vbdos. Plus the
source code for that library comes with it so you can give the outdated
dialogs a more up to date appearance(not an option with vbdos) and you
have the option of taking the code with you if change to a different
compiler(also not an option with vbdos). plus vbdos is loaded with bugs
not found in PDS.

My personal favorite is POWERBASIC for dos 3.5 which can be purchased at
http://www.powerbasic.com . it is very compatible with QB/PDS. In fact I
converted the PDS user interface library to PB in about an hour using a
program called qb2pb http://www.geocities.com/rlglass2/qb2pbv2.zip (not
the one that comes with PB). I only had to rewrite a couple of inline
asm routines and reconcile a few variables that conflicted with PB
keywords, and it worked like a charm.

buck

misc >> Book recommendation

by ArarghMail706NOSPAM » Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:40:49 GMT

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 21:21:16 -0400, buck huffman < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >


<snip>
<snip>
No, it wasn't. :-) My copy has a date of 08/92, which is after the
GUI VB1 which has a date of 05/91.

I don't ever use the runtime module for any version of Basic. I also
never compile from the IDE. '/o' is what I use.

I considered PDSs ISAM to be obsolete on the first day I saw it. :-)
It is also a memory hog.

I agree. That is what I use the most.

Hmmm, I never used VBDOS enough to see any of those bugs. Is there a
list somewhere?

<snip>
--
ArarghMail706 at [drop the 'http://www.' from ->] http://www.arargh.com
BCET Basic Compiler Page: http://www.arargh.com/basic/index.html

To reply by email, remove the extra stuff from the reply address.

misc >> Book recommendation

by Judson McClendon » Fri, 29 Jun 2007 22:22:45 GMT


Great reference, especially if you want to program down to the bare metal.
:-)
--
Judson McClendon XXXX@XXXXX.COM (remove zero)
Sun Valley Systems http://sunvaley.com
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."